EP 20 - Exploring INTENNSE: A Player's Perspective and A Preview of Season Two

Spin The Racket (00:00): introduces and we'll go from there.

Gerard (00:03): Awesome. All right, let's do this.

Spin The Racket (00:14): And I'm Lou.

Gerard (00:17): Today we're joined by Annabel Thomas. She's a former college player in one of the faces of Intense. She took home the Impact Player Award in season one and she decided to return to season two. Annabel, welcome to the pod.

Annabelle Thomas (00:29): Thank you guys. I'm excited to talk to you.

Gerard (00:32): Yeah, yeah, we're excited to have you on here. know, I know, you know, obviously intense is something that we're excited to participate in. We were able to go to some games last season, excited for season two here, but definitely want to dig into your journey and background and all the fun stuff. But before we get into that, number one question we always ask every guest, would you rather have no forehand or no serve?

Annabelle Thomas (00:57): I think I would say no serve. I mean, my forehand is my weapon, I always want to be lasering forehand winners. So I would definitely take out the serve.

Gerard (01:03): Yeah.

Spin The Racket (01:10): There you go, dude, that's two in a row. think the last, yeah, we've got Annabelle and our previous guests also said forehand. So thank you. Yeah, I don't know. It's, it's been, I don't, we don't keep count, right? Gee, no, there's no, we'd have to, we'd have to go back and keep count across the episodes, but that'd be too much work. Um, but I feel like.

Gerard (01:10): That is fair. That is fair.

Annabelle Thomas (01:19): Four hands are in the lead then.

Gerard (01:26): feel like you do.

Annabelle Thomas (01:31): Well, they always say with Intense, serve bots stay away. So the one serve rule, maybe if you love your serve, you're not going to love it so much anymore.

Gerard (01:38): That's a good point.

Spin The Racket (01:39): That's right. Yeah, I mean, I've got the hype, but I've never been a surf bot. So I will always say I'll take my forehand over the surf. don't know. Just my 2 cent there. So walk us through a little bit through your tennis background and all the way up to intense. What got you there?

Annabelle Thomas (02:01): Yeah, so I came to college in 2020. I signed at the University of North Florida, which is a D1 school here in Jacksonville, Florida, where I live right now.

Gerard (02:39): Mm-hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (02:42): I loved it. I played four years there and got my undergrad degree there. But then my senior year at UNF, I actually broke my wrist right at the start of the season. So it was a little devastating because I'd gone from being a freshman outside of the lineup and then getting on the team at the end of my freshman year and just building, building, building all the way up to that number one spot. And it kind of felt like everything had fallen apart.

Gerard (02:54): hope.

Gerard (03:01): Mm-hmm.

Gerard (03:07): Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (03:12): Yeah, it was my dream to keep playing pro after college. So being a senior in my last semester, this was a really stressful time. But I was still able to train. Luckily, it was my left wrist. So I could still hit plenty of forehands. Maybe that's why my forehand got a lot better. But yeah, I could still train with the team, support them. And then that was when I decided

Gerard (03:15): Mm-hmm.

Gerard (03:30): That's fair.

Annabelle Thomas (03:38): Hey, what's next for me? I had the opportunity to start a master's program, which I would have never thought, looking back when I was 17, 18. And I knew that I wanted to do it in psychology, because I've always been really interested in the mental side of the sport, not just forehands and backhands, but, what does it take to be at the top? So.

Gerard (03:47): Yeah.

Gerard (03:56): Mm-hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (04:04): I started looking around at different schools and I started talking to the Clemson coaches and it was just a perfect fit in terms of academics and just stepping up to that next level. So that whole year was amazing. I really miss it. mean, this time last year we were competing to try and get back on the NCAA tournament.

Gerard (04:16): Mm-hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (04:30): tournament and it was, it was a tough road, but we made it for like the first time in eight years. So I'm really proud to be part of that team. then yeah, after Clemson, was, hey, straight into intense. So it's been, it's been a really cool journey from growing directly from college into something that's so new and being able to be supported in my college playing.

Gerard (04:38): That's amazing.

Gerard (04:45): Yeah.

Gerard (04:54): For sure. Yeah. No, I love that. Can we, OK, can we rewind back to you said you started college in 2020 and like, I just like reaction like, like, I don't know, I remember your 2020 is just like, it flashes back to like COVID. What was that like walking into that atmosphere in the college when, you know, the whole world is changing around you?

Annabelle Thomas (05:00): Thank you.

Annabelle Thomas (05:06): We off!

Annabelle Thomas (05:15): Yeah, it was so strange. I mean, I would fly over from England and there would be 20 people on the plane coming over to the US and definitely that first fall was strange being a student athlete on campus. mean, UNF doesn't have the biggest student population, but at the same time, it was completely deserted. But honestly, I actually focused a lot more on building the relationships with my team and also just developing on the court and getting good grades.

Gerard (05:25): Crazy.

Gerard (05:29): Mm-hmm.

Gerard (05:35): Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (05:45): So I guess it was a more chill introduction than most typical college students have. Exactly, I mean, nobody really knew what was happening, so we all had to just figure it out as we went along. yeah, was definitely grateful for the spring when we were able to start traveling and competing again because nobody knew what the future was going to hold.

Spin The Racket (05:51): you some clarity. Nice.

Gerard (06:05): Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (06:19): Yeah, I'm grateful that we were a team that were training outside anyways, because some of my friends had these horror stories of them playing in hot domes and they're wearing masks and all this kind of stuff. So I was grateful that we could just train as normal, even though the rest of life looked a little strange.

Gerard (06:28): ugh.

Gerard (06:36): Absolutely. then I know you mentioned, sorry, I had to.

Spin The Racket (06:37): Sure. So, no, go ahead, G. That's fine.

Annabelle Thomas (06:42): you

Gerard (06:43): Okay, now I was gonna say, I know you mentioned the wrist injury. How did that happen? Like was was playing tennis, something else, accident?

Annabelle Thomas (06:51): Yeah, we were just practicing some doubles and I mean, I'm pretty energetic when I'm on the court and there was some crazy ball going over my head and I was refusing to let it bounce. I had to hit an overhead on this ball, but the courts were a little slick and I basically just stacked it and landed on my wrist. And at the start, I just thought, okay, whatever, this is fine. It's probably just sort, right? So I played a few matches with it.

Gerard (07:14): Hmm hmm hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (07:16): And then by the third singles match I was playing, the girl clocked that clearly my backhand was compromised and I just took an absolute beating in the third set. And after that, I knew, okay, something's wrong here. I need to this checked out. So, I mean, it was a tough, tough time to have an injury, but I mean, I'd been through that before when I was 16, I broke my leg. Same thing on the tennis court. I'm a little cursed here, but so going through that.

Gerard (07:23): you

Gerard (07:29): Mm-hmm.

Gerard (07:40): Hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (07:46): That injury and rehab process definitely gave me confidence to know that I could come back from the wrist injury, which I did pretty fast in the span of a few months.

Gerard (07:52): Mm-hmm.

Gerard (07:56): That's Wow. All I'm hearing is like you're like the ultimate competitor, like you're breaking limbs on tennis courts and then still like competing and coming back.

Annabelle Thomas (08:00): I'm definitely super competitive, so if there's an obstacle, I'm not going to let it stand in my way.

Spin The Racket (08:03): Yeah.

Gerard (08:10): I love it.

Spin The Racket (08:12): That's, yeah, that's, that's the energy. I can appreciate that. I, I, I've found myself kind of, yeah, sometimes it could be, you can forget your own, like it could be a little bit self-destructive. I've done the same thing where it's like, you go for a ball and you like have no regard for anything else but the ball. you almost hit like the, the, the net post and stuff like that. And it's like, shoot. Like your, your life flashes before your eyes. Like,

Annabelle Thomas (08:29): Mm-hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (08:42): You're just putting your body on the line

Spin The Racket (08:42): Yeah, that, that, that, could have gone, that could have gone another way. but, know, thankfully I think there is an important piece there. know you mentioned, you know, going into the psychology of the sport and I've, I'm familiar with, the confidence that comes from doing something once before, right? Like getting through a difficult time, and being able to, you know, have that it's different. It requires a.

Annabelle Thomas (08:46): you

Spin The Racket (09:12): lesser level of anxiety. All right. Let me rephrase my thoughts here because I feel like I'm trying to make a point, but I'm like scrambling. Yeah, it's, it's mainly, yeah, I'm having a hard time phrasing myself in this particular situation. Let's go. Go ahead.

Annabelle Thomas (09:16): you

Annabelle Thomas (09:28): Yeah, I mean, yeah. No, I just, mean, I knew that getting a master's in psychology was something that I wanted to go into because

Spin The Racket (10:53): Yeah, just a number. Now, obviously you've you've shared the journey through the college career, the difficulties, the challenges with COVID, the challenge with the broken wrist in the senior year. How did how did this intense season one come about? Like what how do you connect the dots here?

Annabelle Thomas (11:13): Yeah, I knew a few people who were involved in the league and I started talking to them right at the start of last year and I found out about this intense league and I thought, okay, let me find out more about this. This sounds really cool. You you're a fifth year in college, you're preparing to go on the tour, but you're not really sure what that entails. I don't have a whole bunch of disposable income where I can just travel the world. So as soon as I started finding out about this league and that I

Gerard (12:10): Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, can you talk a little about that process in terms of them selecting you and how that works? Like I'm picturing like, I don't know, almost kind of like how the folks do like the college process, where you're like submitting videos, are you hitting like forehands and backhands and stuff? Maybe you're like...

Annabelle Thomas (12:26): Yeah, exactly. It was really similar to that. It was, it's almost like going for a job interview, except, you know, you're talking about your tennis level and what you bring as a person. And so, yeah, there was an interview process, a video process, but

Gerard (12:32): Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (12:44): because last season we were connected to the cities, and Jacksonville, Florida was already my base and my home and where I'd been brought up in college and where I have coaching connections here. So it was perfect for me to link straight into that team, really.

Gerard (13:01): Mm-hmm. That's awesome.

Spin The Racket (13:04): Do you think the traditional path like going college and then trying to go pro and then like, may, I mean, let's be honest, statistically not working out for the majority of people. You think that's broken for most players?

Annabelle Thomas (13:17): Oh yeah, a hundred percent. I think if you're a top ITF junior and you're making junior slams and you're winning pro events, and even if you still go to college when you're at that level and you're competing throughout college on the tour, when you get to the end of college, the player base is just huge. I mean, not only on the women's side, even more so on the men's side. And I think it's...

Gerard (14:28): Sure. So obviously we had J.Y. on the pod as we talked about before. For our listeners who didn't hear that episode and are unfamiliar with Intense, could you give kind of the 30 second elevator pitch or dinner party answer to what is INTENNSE?

Annabelle Thomas (14:45): Yeah, of course. So INTENNSE is a team tennis league where you have three men and three women on each team competing together. And it's different from traditional tennis because we play in a time-based format.

Gerard (15:33): Yeah. For sure, for sure. And just as a fan attending the event too, I just thought it was pretty unique in terms of, you know, oftentimes with tennis, it's quiet, right? During points, you're kind of sitting there waiting to like erupt with applause and intensity. Like the whole time you're yelling out, people are like, you know, using noisemakers and they're doing everything they can to be engaged. And I thought that was so cool how they brought the fans into the matches with you.

Annabelle Thomas (16:01): Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's they say that it's for the fans and and the company is for the sport. So it's strange. think back to college, everybody is so rowdy after the point and before and after. then during there's this strange etiquette where you have to be quiet and very respectful. Or if you're a family and you're taking your your kid to go and watch a college match or a Grand Slam.

Gerard (16:13): Right.

Gerard (16:29): Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (16:29): and you just have to sit there in silence. Like think of another sport where you go and watch and you just have to be so quiet. And it was so cool to build connections with the fans who were coming back like week by week to the arena because they were just loving it and they got to know us and we got to know them. And I mean, that's what it's all about,

Gerard (16:35): Right, yeah.

Gerard (16:48): That's pretty cool. Yeah, now it is.

Spin The Racket (16:53): Yeah, golf is like that too. But even, yeah, but, but even golf is doing different things now, especially with the like Saudi Arabia league and all that, like they're, trying to make it a lot more dynamic, right. And the traditional golf situation, but that's a sport that it's a, it's another beast to like, try to enjoy it from a like, expectator's perspective, right? It's, tough.

Annabelle Thomas (16:56): true, that's a good example.

Annabelle Thomas (17:07): Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (17:16): Mm-hmm.

Spin The Racket (17:30): Yeah.

Gerard (17:35): Yeah.

Gerard (17:41): okay.

Gerard (17:46): Mm-hmm. nice. All right.

Annabelle Thomas (17:48): trash-fogging back and forth, there was definitely some some rivalries, not even just player to player, but literally playing the van. Yeah.

Gerard (17:55): Yeah, right. Yeah, a little tint from there. I like it.

Spin The Racket (17:57): Yeah, you got like that season pass, pass holder. That's like, you know, they're going to sit in that one chair and say the one thing. That's great. I like that.

Annabelle Thomas (18:05): Gerard (18:06.743) Yeah, they're like, it's in the rules, so I'm good. And it's like...

Annabelle Thomas (18:10): yeah. That was some gray areas was what could not be said, but on the whole, think people were pretty respectful, but they made it fun at the same time.

Gerard (18:15): Yeah.

Gerard (18:20): Yeah, that's funny.

Spin The Racket (18:20): That's cool. That takes me back to like my baseball days growing up. when I was a kid, it got like that. So I could see. I've never been to an intense match. I've never been, unfortunately. But I think I caught onto it like too late. And I think you guys were already done. And I was like, the one time that you went, I think I was out of town. So I am very much looking forward to season two. Might be there.

Annabelle Thomas (18:28): There's a thin line and it can be crossed.

Gerard (18:32): Yeah

Annabelle Thomas (18:43): Oh, well, you guys will have to come back. Oh, yeah, it's going to be a bigger, bigger arena yet to be disclosed. But yeah, it's definitely going to be fan friendly and it's going to be all throughout June and July with the grand finale right at the start of August. it gives people plenty of time to come and watch. And hopefully we pick up some routine fans at the start of the season who want to come back every time.

Spin The Racket (19:11): Yeah, Spin the Rack is already fans of Intent, so we'll definitely be attending this time. I'm not going to get the FOMO that I've been having for the past few months. Everyone's been describing it. When we did the episode with JY, he starts describing this whole thing. And then I go watch the videos, and I'm like, dang, dude. I wish I were there, you know?

Gerard (19:12): That's awesome.

Annabelle Thomas (19:15): Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (19:20): Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (19:31): Yeah. Yeah. And when you're there as a fan too, like even as a player, I would watch the other teams compete and you feel like you're, you're part of the experience. You're not just a bystander. The way that they set up the arena, you're really like in on the action. You're right there. You can stand literally next to the court and you can hear the players talking. You can hear the coaches coaching. So if you go there, you're definitely going to have a good time.

Gerard (19:40): Mm-hmm.

Gerard (19:58): Yeah, more about the player experience. Just how many matches a week were you playing? How often were you practicing? How much travel was involved? a little bit of that.

Annabelle Thomas (20:08): Yeah, I mean, season one was a little different with just three teams, Tampa, Atlanta and Jacksonville. We were traveling back and forth.

Gerard (20:15): Mm-hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (20:18): We were training as a team in our different cities. And then we would play at the end of the week, a couple matches on the weekend. And then we would also compete individually too. Season two is going to be a lot different. mean, everybody's going to be based in Atlanta full time. It's going be 10 teams. So we're looking at 80 players, which is a huge jump.

Gerard (20:38): cast.

Annabelle Thomas (20:41): Yeah, everybody's going to be based at different training centers with their teams, so really building the community there. And then it's going to be more focused on the team events with also something that I didn't mention was there's an outside team called the challenge team, which enables, yeah, it enables other players who aren't actually signed on with the league full time to compete against the pro teams.

Gerard (21:07): that's cool. All right. Yeah. Yeah, this is our chance. It's good. Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (21:08): Yeah, so you can anybody can sign up for the challenge event. Yeah, you like intense and you want to go shot you can you can join the challenge series. through a draw and I saw so many people who even my teammates from from Clemson I say hey guys like you need to come to Atlanta and they qualified for the challenge team and they loved it. So anything.

Spin The Racket (21:10): There you go, G.

Gerard (21:20): That's really cool.

Gerard (21:30): Wow. Oh, that's neat. That's a smart way to do it. Yeah, it of adds this like level of mystique and intrigue. Like, who are we to play? We don't know. We're going up against. We haven't seen them play yet. Yeah.

Spin The Racket (21:39): Yeah, like that dark horse. Like, yeah, who's going to be the, I mean, America loves an underdog. So I think that's a great way to spin up that story of the, you know, the challenger, the underdog in, in this league.

Annabelle Thomas (21:40): yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (21:46): yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (21:50): Yeah, they were the wild card team last year. And honestly, the challenge team sometimes outperformed the pro teams a lot because they weren't taking anything for granted. Like they had to get to know each other within a few hours and they were just going to give everything they had.

Gerard (22:08): That's pretty cool. how are teams, obviously, you're doing this because you love the sport too, but obviously there's a component of it in terms of you're getting paid and all that. Are you incentivized based off of team wins and the more you guys win, you get bonuses or something like that? Is that how it works?

Annabelle Thomas (22:25): Yeah, for season one, that's definitely how it worked. I know it's going to be similar in season two. Definitely a little more focused on the team emphasis as a whole. Whereas season one, it was slightly more divided between men and women. But this time, it's really everybody all combined. And then I know that.

Gerard (23:00): Yeah. Right. I like that mindset. Yeah, it makes it more collegial, more fun. not like, you again, if you want to go individual and be on your own, like maybe the tour, right? And so it's kind of cool. You're in this team based format and truly, you know, diving into that.

Annabelle Thomas (23:20): Yeah, I mean, you're still out there competing by yourself. I know that when I was out there sometimes playing a ball of singles by myself, it could feel like the pressure was on you. But if things started turning around, hey, there's live substitutions in intents. You can be sub straight out. Somebody else can be subbed in literally after a point. It can be any time.

Gerard (23:29): Yeah.

Gerard (23:37): Mm-hmm.

Gerard (23:43): Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (23:43): other than during the point. So you know that you have your teammates right there next to you ready to come in. It's pretty cool. I'm gonna talk about them. There's a little opening.

Spin The Racket (23:45): That'd be wild.

Gerard (23:50): Yeah, I need that sub feature sometimes I'm thinking about some some league matches or I'm down low 40. Hey, can I call him that guy at the big serve to come in and just get me back to do real quick? Yeah, like come on back in. Exactly.

Spin The Racket (23:56): Yes.

Annabelle Thomas (24:04): I'll just come in for the tie rake at the end when you're ready to go out. Yeah, it was cool. It was really cool. But yeah, sometimes people were, the coaches would be subbing people out and you could see them standing on the side like racket in hand. I could feel that sometimes, you you just, you want to go in and then you kind of get thrown in there and you just have to figure it out. So.

Spin The Racket (24:10): God.

Spin The Racket (24:23): Come here coach, come here.

Gerard (24:29): And like, you don't get like a warm up or anything, right? You just hop in, right?

Annabelle Thomas (24:32): yeah, I know everyone's like dancing around on the side, the heart's pumping, adrenaline's going and you get in there and it's just noise and chaos and you, I mean it taught me so much, not only about my tennis but about who I am as a person and what helps me perform at my best.

Gerard (24:35): Yeah.

Gerard (24:42): is. Yeah.

Gerard (24:50): Yeah, that's cool.

Spin The Racket (24:51): That sounds insane. Now that I think about it, like, yeah, the fact that like, you're so accustomed to having like this like entire warmup. mean, we just put up a video yesterday about a, an entire like mobility activation routine that, that I do takes about 10 minutes and you get on core. do another like 10, 15 minutes of like activation and warming up. And then you start actually hitting a ball and then you warm up for like, let's say 20, 30 minutes. And then you can get into like.

Annabelle Thomas (25:05): Thank

Annabelle Thomas (25:12): Mm-hmm.

Spin The Racket (25:20): actual match play. And so you're now stripping that and going, yeah, you got to be ready to, you know, serve return and hit everything like off the rip. that sounds, you're just tight. Right.

Annabelle Thomas (25:26): Yeah.

Gerard (25:37): Mmm, yeah.

Gerard (25:44): I'm gonna finish it.

Gerard (25:55): That's cool.

Spin The Racket (25:55): That sounds awesome, but I would get so tight. That's yeah.

Gerard (25:58): you

Annabelle Thomas (25:58): Yeah, I had a few heartbreakers across the season. It came down to the final point. There's money on the line, there's team result on the line. And honestly, think more times than not, I was the player who walked away.

Gerard (26:06): Mmm.

Annabelle Thomas (26:17): being the one losing by one point, but I mean, every single week that taught me a lot more and it actually made me hungrier to come back. And it made me more motivated off the court too, to just enjoy the experience. Telling myself, hey, it's not just about the final whistle. You know, it's about what am I actually getting out of this experience? So in hindsight, I'm grateful, even if in the moment I was gutted.

Gerard (26:19): Yeah.

Gerard (26:25): For sure.

Gerard (26:37): Yeah, that's right.

Annabelle Thomas (27:00): Yeah, I feel like this honestly the serve is probably the most controversial just because people who are new to the league think that they can they can just pound serves and it's effective but sometimes you would see stretches where okay miss serve miss return

Gerard (27:05): Mm-hmm.

Gerard (27:12): Yeah.

Gerard (27:18): Mm-hmm. Yep.

Annabelle Thomas (27:19): or miss serve. Okay, the other person serves miss serve, you know, and go back and forth. And then once the player has built the confidence and something I've been working on is like my first second serve. Yeah, it's like, let's get the serve in play and then figure it out. You know, don't worry too much about acing. People would try and ace to go for two points off the serve. Like, that's not me.

Gerard (27:29): Yeah

Spin The Racket (27:31): Yeah, got 3 quarters.

Gerard (27:36): Yeah. Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (27:48): All right.

Annabelle Thomas (27:56): There were so many funny times where somebody would toss the ball up and it would just be way off. And they were just doing some crazy gymnastics moves to try and jump inside the ball and the replays were hysterical. What did you ask, sorry?

Spin The Racket (28:03): you

Gerard (28:06): Yeah, that's That's great. Yeah, you remember halfway through.

Spin The Racket (28:11): Can you underarm serve? Can you underarm serve? Hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (28:17): yeah, yeah, you can do anything. Although our coach Claudio was very unhappy with the underarm serving for team Jacksonville. So he sort of placed a ban on that. I mean, yeah, people would run up to the line with two seconds to go bunting an underhand serve and points still on. I mean, if the timer runs out during the last point, you finished the point.

Spin The Racket (28:40): I mean, all I'm saying is, it's something that would happen to me. You toss the ball, you realize, shoot, I can't catch it anymore. That point is below your shoulder. And it's like, all right, screw it. I'm just going to underhand it.

Annabelle Thomas (28:45): Thank you.

Annabelle Thomas (28:51): Yeah, something else about Intents 2, it's not based on the returner. It's literally server's pace. So if you're a server, you grab a ball from a ball kid, go to the other side. If your opponent is mad or they're not paying attention and they're standing on the wrong side, you could literally just bump the ball in and you go 2.8. So you literally have to be on it all the time.

Gerard (29:10): Wow.

Annabelle Thomas (29:15): Yeah. It's time to get frustrated.

Spin The Racket (29:17): Yeah, Carlos would have something to say about it too.

Annabelle Thomas (29:25): yeah, you're not working to the towel.

Spin The Racket (29:33): So obviously we mentioned during the beginning of the episode that you got the Impact Player Award for Season 1. What led you to getting the award and what does that mean to you?

Annabelle Thomas (29:45): Yeah, it meant a lot to receive that award.

Gerard (30:47): That's really cool. Yeah, that's a rewarding feeling to your point. Just first time doing a league like this, not knowing what to expect, and coming out with an award, winning something. And obviously, you mean a lot to your team. So congrats.

Annabelle Thomas (31:00): Thank you.

Spin The Racket (31:02): Do you think there's a downside to like playing team tennis or do you miss like the pure individual accountability or where's that kind of just gone now?

Annabelle Thomas (31:13): It's pretty much gone now. mean, I think when you're a junior, sometimes it's nice for it to fall upon you and you know that you have control of your outcome. But really, by the time you're done with college, I don't see a need for it to just be about yourself anymore unless you're playing Grand Slams and you're one of the best players in the world.

Spin The Racket (32:10): You got to give some grace to the fact that you were all trying a whole different format of tennis, right? So I think there was some leeway on that where it's like, you know the first go around is going to be with its ups and downs. Do you think the expectations are higher now for season two? Do you think they're tightening everything up a little bit?

Annabelle Thomas (32:15): you

Annabelle Thomas (32:26): Mm-hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (32:33): Yeah, I think, I wouldn't say the expectations are higher, but I just think that the level and the production is going to just be that much better because season one was really the inaugural season. Let's figure out what works, what doesn't. So I'm really excited. And honestly, they adapted throughout the season too. They weren't just like, here you go. Here's what we're going to be doing. No, like let's use this as a testing period. So I'm excited for season two to have the best of season one.

Gerard (32:49): Mm-hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (33:03): and then also find out how can we make this better, not just for season two, but season three, four, five, and hopefully season 10 expanding across, not just in the US. So I really like see the future potential in the league.

Gerard (33:09): Yeah.

Gerard (33:18): Sure. That's awesome. I know you pointed to a couple of changes for season two, more teams, more players. We've been reading about this draft process as well that they have for season two. What can you share about that?

Annabelle Thomas (33:33): I mean...

Gerard (34:38): Yeah, that's a good point. Obviously, each coach probably has a different philosophy on what a good team looks like. And to your point, maybe it's team chemistry. Maybe it's, I want the highest rated UTR player. I don't know. There's probably different ways to do it. So yeah, it's kind neat to kind of see how it all comes together for each team.

Annabelle Thomas (34:55): Mm-hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (34:59): Yeah, I spoke to my coach from last season, Claudio Pistolesi, who is former top ATP player. And he works at the JTCC academy here in Jacksonville. And I've been coaching for him and he's been helping me train. really JTCC talks about building a community and they're very big on player coach relationships. So Claudio was always talking to us about that.

Gerard (35:08): Mm-hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (35:29): not about the final result, but the word that he used for our team was courage. So we would always talk about being courageous and just leaving it all out there and that helped me a lot.

Spin The Racket (35:42): What's the, you said that you're being preparing. What's, what's it look like off season versus on season for you? So dating like a regular day in the life.

Annabelle Thomas (35:50): Yeah, I would say.

Spin The Racket (36:51): Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It's like, so you obviously the season is going to start in June. So you kind of have a target and you can kind of treat it your off season, do your type of training. And you know, you go there, it's not going to be any of that. You have to be ready to perform. But you've you've built that confidence in the reps, in the work you've put in throughout the months. I've been seeing another player from season one, Ellie Shulson.

Annabelle Thomas (36:57): Mm-hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (37:06): Mm-hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (37:15): Mm-hmm.

Spin The Racket (37:15): We go to the same gym. So I see Ellie like in the mornings just like grinding it out. And I'm like, at some point I was like, what did I didn't, I didn't recognize her first. was like, what is, what is she training for? Cause she was going hard. I'm like, what's what. Yeah. So I was just like, yeah, I just see her and be like, what is she training for? then I think there was a special event that intense did, somewhere in Florida.

Annabelle Thomas (37:27): Yeah. yeah. Yeah. It has to be higher intensity. mean, it's shorter balance. So the training style is definitely different.

Annabelle Thomas (37:42): Mm-hmm. Yeah, in Port St. Lucie. Yeah, I was away that weekend, but I know that they brought a whole bunch of new players in and the feedback was really, really positive,

Spin The Racket (37:46): Port St. Lucie and I, yeah, I saw a video and I was like, that's where I've seen her. And then like, obviously reach out to her and all that and found out, yeah, she's doing the off season. So, yeah, right. It's like, I mean, there probably are more people in the gym that I don't know. That could be part of intense, who knows, but.

Annabelle Thomas (37:57): Okay.

Annabelle Thomas (38:10): yeah. It's funny in training now because a lot of people that I'm training with through JTCC in Florida, they are playing traditional tennis. So I'll still train that with them, but it honestly feels kind of boring now. Like I'm waiting for the person to serve.

Gerard (38:27): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Spin The Racket (38:28): Hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (38:30): I'm like, oh, we have to play. Do moves back and forth. So always I'm going up to people, hey, you want to play? You want to play intense ball against me today? And they're like, what's that? I explain it to them, we play it. And they're like, oh, we're playing again. Oh, yeah.

Gerard (38:40): you

Spin The Racket (38:46): It's already happening. It's you

Gerard (38:51): keep the faster pace in between points. Because yeah, some people do just move really slow, you know? But yeah, if you are used to that, I can imagine that's like, feel like ages in between points or games.

Annabelle Thomas (39:01): And especially there's a big, big room for this in the junior space too, because you think about the next generation of juniors now, maybe our attention spans are getting a little shorter, the way that the world is changing. So I could really see juniors grabbing onto this and enjoying it. Not feeling so isolated out there by themselves, but getting to play with other kids and having that support. that's something that I really want to work on too.

Gerard (39:13): Mm-hmm.

Spin The Racket (39:14): Yeah, that team component is huge. I mean, I kind of have a upbringing similar to yours, Annabelle, where I feel like I played a dozen sports growing up.

Gerard (39:20): Mm-hmm.

Spin The Racket (39:40): Eventually, tennis became my one love, but I played a lot of soccer, football growing up, depending on where you are in the world. Okay, good. Well, I did miss that. was obviously, for me, was like, let's quit soccer, because I got...

Annabelle Thomas (39:51): Mm-hmm. It's fine. I'll say soccer now.

Gerard (39:54): Yeah.

Spin The Racket (40:04): frustrated of the team experience and I wanted to have all the accountability on myself. That's why I ended up falling for tennis, it is nice to have that team component, right? Especially with kids socializing, just being part of a group, that's just part of human nature. So having the social component is, I think it would be nice for the younger generation. And yeah, I think attention spans are cooked, so.

Annabelle Thomas (40:10): Mm-hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (40:17): Mm-hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (40:22): I know.

Annabelle Thomas (40:29): Yeah.

Spin The Racket (40:30): It's not a matter of like do we want it to be like we kind of have to adapt the format right to the to the new attention span.

Annabelle Thomas (40:37): Yeah, even working as a coach now, I see it in the players, they get so bored playing traditional tennis. And I know that my go-to is always, okay, let's teach the kids how to play in tennis. Even if it's not the ones of real, I'll adapt it and get them playing it. As soon as you tell junior boys that you get two points for hitting a winner, the level just goes up because they are not letting a single ball go past them.

Gerard (40:58): Bye.

Gerard (41:03): Exactly. That's fun.

Spin The Racket (41:04): That's great. So yeah, thinking of like the younger generation, like what do you think intends is such a great transition for college players specifically?

Annabelle Thomas (41:07): Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (41:17): I mean college players already know how to play on a team. They love the structure.

Spin The Racket (42:15): Gee, I you had something to say and I think I went first.

Annabelle Thomas (42:18): you

Gerard (42:18): You're good. You're good. Now, I'm curious, just as you're talking about season two and pairing and goals and all of that, you know, as you think about season two, you're looking back on it after the year. What would a successful season look like in your mind? Like, what's what's top of mind for you in terms of what you want to achieve this this year?

Annabelle Thomas (42:37): I would say my main goal for season two is to be confident and leave it all out there, which isn't a super measurable goal, but I know in myself when I've played and left it all out there and I'm not doubted myself before a match. So really using the skills that I've learned through my.

Gerard (43:20): Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (43:24): and the relationships that I build there. as somebody who, mean, it's, you can't play tennis forever, right? I want to play for several more years, but at the end of the day, these people that we meet, that's going to be our friend group potentially for the rest of our lives. So especially some of the girls that I got close with in season one.

Spin The Racket (44:06): Yeah, it's a professional. Yeah, it's a professional community, right? It's like, I mean, you can think of it. I always make the association with GNI. You know, we met playing tennis. We come from different cities. I moved here from Augusta, Georgia, home of the Masters. tennis brought us together.

Gerard (44:06): That's a really good reminder.

Annabelle Thomas (44:10): Okay.

Spin The Racket (44:28): We had, you know, professionally we have different careers, but tennis was like the one equalizer for us. We're, we realized we're like-minded individuals. We're both driven. G is definitely a little bit more social, than I am, but you know, again, it's like, it's kind of became like our little professional community surrounded, I guess, enveloped around tennis. And, this is how, you know, Spin the Racket came about. So you never know what kind of projects.

Annabelle Thomas (44:51): Mm-hmm.

Spin The Racket (44:57): you're going to connect on with people that you've played tennis with.

Annabelle Thomas (45:01): 100 % and the league is it's great. It doesn't discriminate against players of different backgrounds playing experiences It's really so inclusive if you're willing to to bring it and be the best version of yourself for the league Whereas obviously on those traditional tours You're pretty much capped as to who has the best coach Training facility who can have this support year-round so it's it's nice to know that people

Gerard (45:09): Mm-hmm.

Gerard (45:16): Mm-hmm.

Gerard (45:29): Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (45:31): who might not have that opportunity to go and play slams or do things like that, still get this amazing career out of it.

Gerard (45:35): Yeah.

Spin The Racket (45:56): Yeah.

Gerard (46:02): because they play it at skill levels, so you do run into the same people over and over, but I kind of almost do one-offs. I'm just trying to beat you and then go off on my Saturday. I'm like, Yeah. All right.

Annabelle Thomas (46:09): I mean, don't get me wrong when I'm in the arena and I'm like, like, I'm going to do whatever it takes to win. So competitive. Okay. Then once the final whistle blows, fine. Like I'm going to go back to being Annabelle. Whereas I'm like AB in the intense arena. I always say intense. Like this literally the perfect name for the league.

Spin The Racket (46:12): You're getting destroyed. You're getting destroyed. Yeah.

Gerard (46:27): Right. Yeah.

Gerard (46:32): Yeah. Yeah, it is. But yeah, I got to get better about that though. Like, you know, I don't know, I'll talk to Lou during the match, like sometimes like, you know, we'll be tummy with like the opponent or something like that. I'm like, don't talk to them. Like, you know, we got to win. I'm just like, yeah, talk after like we gotta focus. Yeah, exactly. Mind games.

Spin The Racket (46:38): Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (46:49): Don't give them an inch. Maybe you're lulling them into a false sense of security. You're playing one those.

Spin The Racket (46:54): you

Spin The Racket (46:58): Yeah, G is just super nice. I'm definitely a little bit more abrasive, for sure. I think that's just how we are. But I would agree. I'm also pretty intense on court for better or worse sometimes.

Annabelle Thomas (47:02): Yeah

Annabelle Thomas (47:13): Mm-hmm. It's the perfect word. And it's funny because everybody in Intents keeps talking about things as everyone would interview us and say, hey, what do you find about this experience? it's so intense. wait, I should probably say something. It's perfect. No pun intended. Well, maybe Intents will inspire you guys to build up camaraderie with your opponents.

Spin The Racket (47:28): I promise, no pun intended.

Gerard (47:38): Exactly.

Spin The Racket (47:39): Yeah, you never know, right? It's like, always think back of, I played with a team here in Atlanta that, so Atlanta is kind of famous for having like their own league. don't know if you're familiar with Alta. but you know, Alta is like, in my opinion, takes over, USDA specifically in Atlanta. Everyone plays Alta and then if they wanted to play USDA, I'll play with a team where kind of like the same thing that it's obviously as within the team, but it was a community where.

Annabelle Thomas (47:52): Mm-hmm.

Spin The Racket (48:09): we actually have found out we had a team doctor, like one of the guys that played in the, in our team, was a doctor. And so like, if you ever had any issues, was like, yeah, you just go see him. Like, you know, it's like, we have like, I was like, does this team like legit have a doctor? And they were like, well, no, like one of the, one of our guys is a doctor. So like, I was like, wow. All right. That's legit. So you never know. Right. I'll play it against like a lawyer and like,

Annabelle Thomas (48:21): thanks.

Annabelle Thomas (48:31): Yeah. I know the team isn't just the who can have the best serve for it and backhand. It's like, okay, what skills are you bringing from off the court? And that was the intense interview process. Honestly, it's like, what are you going to bring to the league besides just being a number on a team? So I actually thought about the team darken. I mean, that's cool.

Gerard (48:38): Right.

Spin The Racket (48:41): Nice. Yeah.

Gerard (48:45): Wow.

Gerard (48:50): Right.

Gerard (48:54): That's very cool. You'd be like the team psychologist on the side, know, bring you in.

Annabelle Thomas (48:59): No, I mean, I was, I was giving my team pep talks and, was writing, some articles about the league and my experience in terms of mental performance, which was, I mean, different from pretty much anything else I've experienced as an athlete. I'd like to do a research study in, intense.

Gerard (49:15): Mm-hmm. Cheers.

Annabelle Thomas (49:22): So I did include intents in my thesis and found some interesting data. So I'll try and keep that going in season two. I'll report back to you guys.

Gerard (49:31): Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm sure you have a lot of interesting findings there.

Spin The Racket (49:33): Nice. You're to have a lot more data points in season two as well. yeah, bigger pool. So obviously, we're very inspired by Intents. We're very inspired by this new format. We think, we also agree, it's definitely looking like it's going to be the future of tennis. Things are coming up. You've got UTS that's adding a more entertainment-focused format to the world of tennis.

Annabelle Thomas (49:35): you

Spin The Racket (50:02): How would you want to see, like let's say, and this is not to put you on the spot, but how would you want to see spin the racket involved with like the new intense season?

Annabelle Thomas (50:13): I Spin the Racket should interview players almost similar to the way that the intense broadcast doesn't just ask the traditional interview, how do you feel now that you won? You know, like, why don't we even ask players these questions? Like, you guys need to be digging deep and asking questions beyond just...

Gerard (50:24): Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (50:34): how do you feel or what are your goals? Like let's actually find out the play by play or find out okay what does a day in your life look like as a player and who's your biggest rivalry? Just all kinds of different things that people wouldn't necessarily know as a viewer or fan but once you find those things out as a fan you can really start to root for certain players and build those relationships.

Gerard (50:35): Mm-hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (51:01): I think you guys should do like a weekly check-in after pick out intense players after each week of the season and get them on the pod. Yes. Yeah. Maybe you can do your take on that. You can do like a get the video up and do a live commentary. Your take on it.

Gerard (51:07): Mm-hmm. that'd be cool.

Spin The Racket (51:12): Let's break this down.

Gerard (51:20): Mmm, okay.

Spin The Racket (51:24): Yeah, yeah, I figured you know, I'd ask you it's like well, it's you know, what would what would a player want to see from us? Right? I think it's we're definitely asking ourselves those questions as the season is starting to ramp up and things are happening. so, you know, stay tuned and what kind of format we end up coming up with. But I agree, you know, making it a place where where we get a little bit more.

Annabelle Thomas (51:26): you

Annabelle Thomas (51:38): Mm-hmm.

Spin The Racket (51:46): precise with the feedback, right? Where we get more in depth with the conversations, maybe a little bit more vulnerable, right? We bring those walls down and talk about how did you feel in the moment? What thoughts were crossing your head, your mind? Sometimes those are not pretty thoughts, but I always think about who could be listening or watching our videos. It could be a 10 year old that's trying to make it in 10, is it really loves the sport? It could be someone.

Annabelle Thomas (52:05): Mm-hmm.

Spin The Racket (52:15): playing in college, maybe having a hard time and they're not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. So it's like, how could something like this give someone else perspective and tell them, hey, it's going to be okay. If this person, he's a professional, she's a professional, they are going through this moment and this is how they're handling it. You can handle it too. I think from a generational perspective, I think it's just a lot of inspiration there.

Annabelle Thomas (52:17): Mm-hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (52:37): Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (52:43): Definitely, I mean, these partnerships we've been working on for season two is really just emphasizing not only, hey, how can we help players when they reach a crisis point? You know, when they feel like they want to quit or they have a career ending injury or something happens with their family. Like, how can we support them? Not just in the league, but throughout the year and as the years go on. So that's something that it's been cool to be a part of and.

Spin The Racket (53:14): Nice. You got a whole study going on here, it sounds like. So we're very excited to find out what comes of it.

Annabelle Thomas (53:17): Yeah, no, I think the players are gonna, they're gonna love it and I'm excited to see how things change from season one and I think it's just gonna be a whole new ballgame.

Gerard (53:32): for sure.

Gerard (53:38): Cool. Or you want to this, Lou?

Spin The Racket (53:40): I was thinking of going, we have some time, so I was thinking of running Annabelle through some quick hands right here.

Annabelle Thomas (53:55): I'm in. One word answers or?

Gerard (53:57): Do it.

Spin The Racket (54:00): So yeah, the rules here are kind of, it's kind of a gray area. I would say answer as quickly as you can and then you can elaborate. think it's still, we wanna see off the rip what you think and then after that, you know, back up your answer, right? So some of them are gonna be, I think this is gonna be more about you specifically, but I think you're gonna like it. So.

Annabelle Thomas (54:32): When I was playing my first mini red tournament, I was the only girl and there was nine guys and I won the whole thing. And I still have that team picture at the end. felt like such a bad-ass.

Gerard (54:39): wow. That is hardcore.

Spin The Racket (54:47): You did not hesitate with that answer. That's awesome. Let's see, number two. What is one habit you stole from a coach or teammate that still shows up in your game?

Annabelle Thomas (54:59): I would say jumping before I return. I feel like you're seeing me on the court. I'm always bouncing around. That's something that my college coaches talk to me a lot about. So sometimes you see me, I'm a little jumping bean out there, but it's used to help me prepare as a routine for the points.

Spin The Racket (55:16): That's great. If someone watched you play for 10 minutes, what would they misunderstand about your game?

Annabelle Thomas (55:26): They would probably think I'm an aggressive baseliner, but I usually have more fun when I'm a counter puncher because I love fitness and running and intense points. So they would probably think that I just like slapping my forehand, but that's not always the case.

Gerard (55:42): Yeah, your grinder sounds like too.

Annabelle Thomas (55:45): yeah, even on the backend side.

Spin The Racket (55:48): Even on the back end. Yeah. So basically anyone that goes against you has better be prepared for long points.

Annabelle Thomas (55:51): Mm-hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (55:57): yeah, like my goal is to be a brick wall and wear you out physically and mentally.

Spin The Racket (56:03): Nice. What is the biggest difference between how you train and how you compete?

Annabelle Thomas (56:11): I think when I'm training, I'm a lot more focused on being present and breathing and calm and intentional. Whereas when I compete, I'm literally just giving it every single thing that I have because I know that the way that I prepared is going to get me through the competition. So it's a case of thinking about what I'm doing when I'm training versus just being in the moment when I'm competing.

Spin The Racket (56:39): feel like I need to follow that. just gave me some wisdom right there. I'm not an over thinker, but I think I was, forget who I told you this, but tennis is the one sport that causes me to overthink. Nowhere else in my life am I like that, except for the dang sport that I love and hate at the same time.

Annabelle Thomas (56:41): Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (56:56): yeah.

Gerard (57:01): Mm-hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (57:02): yeah. I mean, there's days where you love it and you hate it, but if you just try and stay in the moment and enjoy what you're doing, it's going to be a lot more fun in the long run than if you're constantly beating yourself up about it.

Spin The Racket (57:16): What is a tennis believe you used to have that you have completely changed your mind on?

Annabelle Thomas (57:22): good question. I mean, definitely that you need to be very straight faced and calm and always have good body language. I think especially female tennis players.

Spin The Racket (57:38): we've talked about that.

Gerard (57:40): Mm-hmm.

Gerard (57:50): Yeah.

Gerard (58:01): Yeah, I relate to that. I'm definitely like an emotional player. I love come-ons and fist pumps and getting hype after points. Yeah, I feel like you don't see it all the time in positive ways on court, but yeah, it's good to see both men and women do it, period.

Annabelle Thomas (58:17): Yeah, I mean, no one really likes a tennis Roy ball, let's be honest.

Gerard (58:20): Exactly.

Spin The Racket (58:23): Yeah, I think you talked about that recently to me, G, about like how you used to be a lot more when, and the juniors, right? You mentioned that you were a lot more like, come on, let's go. And a lot more dynamic. we, mean, we talked about it from a perspective that I think for us specifically being recreational tennis players, having a nine to five, we almost have to bring yourself like to a medium level and kind of grow a little bit numb to.

Gerard (58:35): in the

Annabelle Thomas (58:48): Yep.

Spin The Racket (58:51): be able to absorb, think psychologically absorb the losses that you can incur, let's say on a Saturday morning and not let that ruin your entire weekend because then Monday hits and you have like work and all that. But at the same time, I think it also dampens your ability to extract from inside and then just, you know, pull through to a certain degree, right? Cause I think we had some great battles this past fall.

Gerard (59:22): Hmm.

Annabelle Thomas (59:30): Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (59:37): You can't just start playing intense, otherwise your weekend will be gone. Seriously though, going off that question, something that I looked back on the broadcast and saw myself doing a lot in those hard moments was literally just laughing at myself and smiling. And then you would see the next few points, I would play a lot better than if I was really tense and taking myself so seriously.

Gerard (59:40): know, exactly. It's a lot of time.

Gerard (01:00:01): Yeah, gotta take the edge off a little bit, you know?

Spin The Racket (01:00:04): Yeah, got to shrug some things off and not, I mean, I know the quintessential, you know, play one point at a time, it's still there for a reason. If you could change one rule in tennis or team tennis to make it more entertaining, what would it be?

Annabelle Thomas (01:00:12): true. yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (01:00:23): Hmm.

Gerard (01:00:38): Hmm.

Gerard (01:00:51): Yeah.

Annabelle Thomas (01:00:56): they just give the players some advice and let the player talk to them too. And I know that's something that people on the broadcast for intense really enjoyed hearing what the coaches had to say to the players in between points in timeouts. And you definitely heard it all. mean, sometimes there are a few things that had to be filtered out, but they try to keep it all. Yeah, stay tuned for that.

Spin The Racket (01:01:16): you

Gerard (01:01:18): Well, it's fun.

Spin The Racket (01:01:24): Last question, what is one thing you wish more recreational players understood about high level competition?

Annabelle Thomas (01:01:34): I wish that they understood that no matter what level you're playing at in tennis, it's the same for everybody and everyone goes through the same struggles, whether it be in matches, in training, planning, you name it. Sometimes people think that professional athletes just on this pedestal and they don't go through any struggles. When in reality, they're going through exactly the same stuff, but maybe they're just

Gerard (01:02:14): Wow, that's incredible. That was a great answer, especially when we're right on the spot there.

Spin The Racket (01:02:16): You handle every, yeah, you got good hands. You got good hands.

Annabelle Thomas (01:02:19): I've been working on that because this license in season one was not it, so...

Spin The Racket (01:02:25): Nice. A little bit of everything. So Annabelle, now we're going to give you the floor for one minute. Where can people find you? What are you working on right now? What's coming up next? And any message you want to leave this Spin the Racket audience with.

Annabelle Thomas (01:02:44): I mean, people can find me.

Gerard (01:03:22): Yeah, please do.

Spin The Racket (01:03:24): Yeah. No, thank you for being part of the pod. Thanks for helping us make this episode happen. think it's been a long time coming. We've been looking forward to it. With that, I'm Lou.

Gerard (01:03:36): and I'm G, keep on spinning.